Thursday, November 28, 2013

Should Pangasinan Fear the Skin Disease Prophecy?: an Examination of Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj's Recent Track Record




As someone who ministers in Pangasinan, it is unavoidable for me to be asked about  Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj's prophecies. His video clips went viral over social media because it is claimed that he correctly predicted Typhoon Yolanda in April, 2013, six months before it hit Samar and Leyte. While he mentioned several places in his talk, the people closest to me are most disturbed by his prophecy concerning our beloved province. He proclaimed:
“The Lord says there is a place called PANGASINAN. The Lord says it is in the northernmost part in your land. From there a grievous disease will spread all over the world. That will consume the flesh of men; all their upper (outer) skin will begin to decay. It will pierce through the bones. The fear of this disease will spread all over the world. The Lord said that this (disease) will begin from the Philippines.”

These are really horrifying words especially to the less equipped Christians. How should we then respond?

According to the Holy Scriptures, the way to test the authenticity of a prophet and his prophecy is to wait and see if the prophecy takes place:
"You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?" If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken." Deuteronomy 18:21-22b (NIV)

But in this case, we don't have to wait. Since this is not Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj's first time to prophesy, what we can do is to test the validity of his claim to be a prophet by examining his track record. My judgment is that he is a false prophet for two recent blemishes on his credentials.

1. THE "WAR ON ISRAEL" FAILED PROPHECY
Sundar was one of the group of prophets who prophesied that there will be a devastating war by the Arab nations against Israel beginning in December of 2012. He said Israel was under God's protection since 1967, but this time God will no longer fight in their behalf. He included some details in his prophecy like:
  •     a ten-story building exploding and crumbling with dust and smoke
  •     a missile falling on a high-rise hotel
  •     warplanes flying all over the sky
  •     dead bodies lying on the streets everywhere
  •     having no allies, the Prime Minister will give way half of the city

He then urged Christians to move to Israel "without delay" and stay in the land "because the prayers of the righteous are needed". Yet even Sundar  does not seem to believe his prophecy because he stayed in India in December of  2012. See
Hannah Weiss report HERE.


2. THE "CHURCH IN NEW ERA" FAILED PROPHECY
He predicted that in October 8, 2011 (coinciding with the Yom Kippur), "the church will enter into a new season, a new era, like she has never seen in the entire church history." This new era will be marked by the following things:

    a. There will be a new level of the demonstration of signs and wonders in the church.
Every Christian, not just pastors will be a miracle worker. The signs and wonders that will be experienced by the church will be at an unprecedented level. Yes, you will find no precedent not even in the Bible. Unbelievers who come in the atmosphere of the churches will drop and fall on their knees and cry out to be saved -- even without the preaching of the word.

    b. The church will take on a new identity, from an unholy church to a holy church; from an unbelieving church to a believing church.

    c. There’ll be a great increase in revelational knowledge of God and the things of God. The mysteries of God will be known to the world.

    d. There’ll be a great harvest of souls.
In contrast to the small harvest in the church's evangelistic efforts, there will be a large harvest starting Oct. 8, 2011. People will go and come out seeking where the church is. Angels will appear to people in visions and dreams. These angels will specifically name the church and the pastor they should seek and instruct them: If you go to that church, and if you ask the pastor (specifically named) to pray, you will be healed.”

    e. The spiritual realm will become very, very visible to the believers.
Seeing God face to face will no longer be exclusive to the likes of Moses and Enoch. Every single believer will experience this.

    f. A prophetic company will rise up from the church.
Everyone in church including newly born infants will prophesy. Sundar explains further:
Which means, every pastor will become a prophetic pastor. Every evangelist will become a prophetic evangelist. Every apostle will become a prophetic apostle. Every teacher will become a prophetic teacher, every minister of God will  become a prophetic minister of God. Every person that is named of Christ will no more be an ordinary believer but you will be a prophetic person. You will see visions, you will prophesy, you will dream dreams and God will use you prophetically to set the captive free. This is what God is going to do in the new season.
See also Abugian's " Ten Convincing Proofs That Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj is Truly a Prophet (NOT!)" . For those who prefer examining primary sources, read the transcript of Sundar's talk HERE.

CONCLUSION

What is being sensationalized in the social media is the supposed fulfilled vague prophecy about the typhoon in Samar and Leyte. Yet our country is ranked by the World Risk Report as the third most dangerous place to live in in 2012 for the many dangers we face all-year round. In fact, If I will claim to be a prophet, name provinces which are known typhoon gateways and predict a calamity, there is a good probability that my "prophecy" will be fulfilled. What is not being discussed in the social media are the serious blemishes in Sundar's track record as a prophet.

Claiming to be a prophet when you are not is a very serious matter. The Law given to Moses prescribes capital punishment for any false prophet:

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death." (Deuteronomy 18:20)

So my fellow Pangasinenses, should we fear Sundar's skin disease prophecy? In the light of our examination of his recent track record, we can conclude that Sundar is a false prophet. And if he is indeed a false prophet, this is what the Bible tells us:
"Do not be afraid of him." (Deuteronomy 18:22c)

45 comments:

  1. also have a blog on the subject

    http://nabuenyo.blogspot.com/2013/11/pastoral-guidance-on-prophecies-of-2013.html

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    1. Hi Dean Pesebre! Ikinagagalak ko po ang pagpadaan ninyo dito.

      Yes, I'm aware of Pastor Doy Castillo's series. I even recommended your blog to one of my friends. Keep up the good work Sir!

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  2. This ABS-CBN News video of Prophet Sadhu's (an Indian Christian prophet) prophecy that the Philippines will be saved from a tsunami that will occur in Asia, was posted on YouTube on March 31, 2010, a year before Japan's major earthquake that produced the killer tsunami on March 11, 2011.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZycWh7b-bxk

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    1. Granting without accepting na nahulaan nga niya yung tsunami sa Japan, does it nullify the biblical criteria of testing a prophet in Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

      Sa pamantayan mo, tunay na propeta ang isang tao kung nakakatsamba siya paminsan-minsan kahit palpak siya sa ibang mga hula niya?

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    2. Have you read the prophecy in its entirety? Because if you did you'd notice that It was also mentioned that although the Philippines was so used to calamities, the coming typhoon would be a record holder in history & the eyes of the world would be upon our country when this calamity strike us plus other exact details. These details were so accurate to consider them coincidence. Anyway, here's the whole transcript for your perusal. https://www.copy.com/s/XqtS6PDgVRTk/Warnings%2C%20Punishments%2C%20%26%20Judgments.pdf

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    3. Have you read the prophecy in its entirety? Because if you did you'd notice that It was also mentioned that although the Philippines was so used to calamities, the coming typhoon would be a record holder in history & the eyes of the world would be upon our country when this calamity strike us plus other exact details. These details were so accurate to consider them coincidence. Anyway, here's the whole transcript for your perusal. https://www.copy.com/s/XqtS6PDgVRTk/Warnings%2C%20Punishments%2C%20%26%20Judgments.pdf

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    4. Thanks for pointing me to the transcript luciacb , very much appreciated. Perhaps you could quote here the significant portions of the trannscript you would want to discuss. Point me also to the page numbers so I could easily find them. I am willing to engage in dialogue as long as it is done in the spirit of peace and charity.

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  3. To Eric Ibana , hindi ko inilathala ang iyong komento dahil ito'y mahaba-haba. You can comment again but please keep comments short, and straight to the point. Anyway, thanks for visiting the blog.

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  4. I am saddened by the lack of information in this blog post. I was there when the prophecy was made and it was not Sadhu Silvaraj but Pastor Vincent Selvakumar who declared said prophecy. Sadhu only translated the prophecies of Vincent. Before making such declarations, I suggest that you research first.

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    1. Thanks for visiting this blog. Isn't Sadhu Sundar alone in this video (minus partner Vincent) and here he uttered the same prophecy on Pangasinan?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoyZ76oHs04

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    2. The prophecy was originally stated at the IFP National Prayer Gathering last April, 2013, we have the complete CDs. It was just reiterated by Sadhu in this video. Sadhu mentioned here that Vincent spoke on the first day. This was on the second day,

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    3. No question about that luciacb; my only contention is that Sadhu Sundar was not a mere translator in this partnership of "prophets"

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  5. I am saddened by the lack of information in this blog post. I was there when the prophecy over Leyte and Pangasinan was made, and it was not Brother Sadhu but Pastor Vincent Selvakumar who declared said prophecy. Sadhu was only translating for the latter. As a paster-blogger who covers religious issues, I suggest that you exercise responsible journalism first and state your opinions second.

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    1. Thanks for visiting this blog. Isn't Sadhu Sundar alone in this video (minus partner Vincent) and here he uttered the same prophecy on Pangasinan?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoyZ76oHs04

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    2. The video you linked was a reiteration of the prophecy made earlier on. :) Linked herein is the first time the prophecy was declared: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo63kAyGWLQ

      Please forgive the quality of the video. I can't find a raw one.

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    3. Thanks for the link Christelle. Admittedly, I should have also examined Vincent Selvakumar's track record. But the Youtube clip I shared at least shows that Sadhu Sundar's role in the Selvaraj-Selvakumar partnership is more than a translator. And isn't he also a "prophet" of equal status?

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    4. It is just saddening that some people are not digging into the topic first before letting their opinions out in the public. Don't you know what the story of Jonah is. He was tasked to tell a "CONDITIONAL PROPHECY"....AGAIN CONDITIONAL PROPHECY! The destruction WILL come to pass to Nineveh if they DIDN'T repent. That is just the same as what Prophet Vincent and Prophet Sadhu always say...That all of these destruction will come to pass if the Philippines didn't repent. Admit it, he indeed told that.

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    5. mystable23, before equating your prophets with Jonah, please prove first that they have the same credentials. Before Jonah uttered his prophecy, his commission as a prophet is biblically confirmed by the miracle of being swallowed by a big fish, staying there for three days and three nights and surviving it. I would like to know if you have any miraculous verifiable confirmation of your prophets' calling that would equal or at least come close to that of Jonah's experience.

      Granting without accepting that these prophecies were of the same nature as Jonah's, why haven't we seen the good things prophesied by Sadhu Sundar of a new dispensation in 2011? Are those good things conditional too? If they are conditional, what conditions were unfulfilled by the church? The Intercessors for the Philippines lead by Bishop Dan Balais (the ones responsible for importing false prophets into the Philippines) faithfully followed the instructions of "the prophets" and are even convinced that the prophesied new dispensation has indeed been fulfilled. But is every Christian now a miracle worker? NO. Do we see the unprecedented manifestations of miracles, signs and wonders? NO.

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    6. You cannot see any wonders & miracles, you cannot even hear a word from God. They are only given to believers. Do you think God will waste his time on you if you do not believe what He is doing in these last days? "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." I Cor. 2:14

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    7. So luciacb , you are now saying that I am an unbeliever for disbelieving in your prophets and asking for evidence that Sadhu's prophecy of the new dispensation has indeed come.

      My status as a Christian is not the only thing in question here but the faith of all our cessationist brothers. Wow, those type of statements will really divide the body of Christ. You are willing to disown the true sheep just to accommodate false prophets in the flock. Yet I am NOT a cessationist. The issue here is not cessationism vs. continuationism. The issue here is genuine miracles vs. counterfeit miracles.

      Your task is not to label as unbelievers those who question sadhu's prophecy of the advent of the New dispensation. Your task is to convince them that the prophesied new dispensation has indeed been fulfilled by providing solid and verifiable evidence.

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  6. First off, the prophecy concerning Yolanda was spoken by the Indian prophet Vincent Selvakumar, not by Sadhu who merely translated the former's prophecy from Tamil to English (just to reiterate). Second, I was in Israel conference in 2011 when the Sadhu spoke about the Israel prophecy that you mentioned, & he gave the prophecy based on Zechariah 14. Granted Jerusalem is not yet divided & the Israel war hasnt take place yet, but we should remember that there are Christians interceding for Israel, in the sams way that we believe that many warnings given in the form of prophecy ha been thwarted by deep intercessions by the children of God. Thirdly, i dont understand why you see the new season message as something that "failed" & unbelievable. It doesnt mean it's not happening in your church it's not happening at all. If we will only look more closely, the gifts of the Spirit are more felt now than ever. (The last days will be marked by the workings of the Spirit. Read Revelation in d Bible, & marvel why it was repeated to have ears to hear the Spirit speaking to the Churches.) The heart of d message of the prophecy going viral today is REPENTANCE & A CALL TO RETURN TO GOD. Only the blind would fail to see that all of us need to do so in this world that has gone so far astray & so distant from the Creator, the God Almighty, the God of Israel.

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    1. 1. You reiterated an earlier point so I will reiterate my answer also. I pointed to a video where Sadhu Sundar, a prophet pressumably of the same status as Vintent was all alone without partner Vincent declaring the prophecy himself. His role in the partnership was not a mere translator. Yet I admit I have an unfinished business. If God grants time and skill, I will also examine the track record of Vincent Selvakumar.

      2. Your prophets have mastered the art of putting themselves in a win-win situation. If what they declare happens by chance (TSAMBA), they will claim glory for themselves. If it doesn't take place, it's because they were succesful in calling people to pray. Win-win situation. How convenient for a prophet! And what a clever way to go around Deuteronomy 18:20-22!

      3. I've not a stranger to the claims of the modern day Apostolic and Charismatic movements. I've been exposed to them since childhood and countless times I've heard about claims of outpouring of such miracles, signs and wonders. Yet upon closer examination, almost all of these claims are hoaxes or at least cannot be validated.

      Sadhu Sundar's prediction of the new dispensation is time specific, and so detailed. If you believe that they are fulfilled, then provide examples which could be validated. Biblical miracles in the Old and New Testaments were so real, critics can't deny they were authentic. So if the prophecy about the unprecented time of miracles has indeed started, the men from within your camp can overwhelm us with verified undeniable proofs

      4. By the way, I delivered a short message in our church early this morning based on Isaiah 55:6-10. It was a call to repentance and seeking God so that times of refreshing may come. So I am not one of the blind ones who fail to see that we have gone so distant from our Creator. That is something we could agree upon. Thanks for visiting this blog smc! Please checkout the other posts; I hope you will find something beneficial to you and the people around you.

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  7. have it ever crossed your mind that even the false prophet Balaam and his donkey were used by God?

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    1. Hi kathlyn! thanks for the visit. What's your point? Please elaborate. Are you telling me that Christians should pay attention to false prophets? Are you telling me that those false prophets in the Old Testament shouldn't be stoned as prescribed in Deuteronomy 18 but rather be given more opportunities to speak?

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    2. By the way, is this FB account yours? https://www.facebook.com/kathlynlagamon

      If it is indeed yours, we have one mutual friend :)

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  8. If his words were not true, judgement will be upon him, but what if it was really of the Lord? The best thing we can do is to pray & turn from our wicked ways that God will heal our land.

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    1. Thanks for droppin' by tinkerbell !

      You asks: but what if it was really of the Lord? That is the very questioned addressed by the written word of God. The Lord has given us Deuteronomy 18:20-22. We examine the track record of these people claiming to be prophets, and if they fail the test, we don't have to fear because they are not prophets of the living God.

      You say further: "The best thing we can do is to pray & turn from our wicked ways that God will heal our land" . Tinkerbell, I assure you that we who don't accept these prophecies are also praying for our land. Our church does that both corporately and individually. We are also consistent in calling people to repentance. I just don't think we need false prophets to spark up our prayer lives. We don't need false prophets to spur a life of holiness.

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  9. What if what he prophesied really comes from God? should we wait for those perilous things to happen? If what he said were lies, then judgement will be upon him, but for me, I think it's time for us to be awakened and to pray for our nation, after all there's nothing to lose when we pray.

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    1. There is something to lose when we believe false prophets. If there is none, then the Bible would have been silent about them. But since the Bible speaks against false prophets, we should take that as a serious warning that false prophets do harm us. It is always dangerous when the people claiming to be the sheep of God can't even distinguish the true shepherd's voice from the false shepherds.

      Again, I would like to assure you that we are also praying for our nation just like you. But our prayer life is fueled by the time-tested written word of God, not by prophecies uttered by self-proclaimed prophets with very poor track records.

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  10. According to your comments, Jonah was also a false prophet. After all, Nineveh was not overthrown in 40 days. Let's just chalk Yolanda up to global warming and stick our heads back in the sand.

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    1. Who's head is buried in the sand? I would say that it is he who fails to see the poor credentials of his prophets.

      God has a way of authenticating his prophets. Jesus affirmed the historicity of Jonah's experience in the belly of a huge fish (Matthew 12:40). The Lord Jesus himself authenticated Jonah as a true prophet of God!!! How about your prophets? How could we validate their claims to be prophets of the Living God?

      By the way, there are records of strong typhoons in the Philippines dating back to the Spanish times and perhaps even more Pre-Colonial typhoons were unrecorded. That is long before the media-hyped "global warming"

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  11. Prophet sadhu is true prophet of the LORD......
    he is not a false prophet

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  12. Let's say we'll disregard the prophecy, we can still not deny that the sin of our nation has already reached heaven. In that case it's not impossible for God to allow destruction to happen.

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    1. Nagkakaisa naman tayo diyan kabayan eh. Ika nga ng Panginoon, "unless you repent, you will ALL perish" (Luke 13:5). And God does not simply allow destructions, he sends them (Amos 3:6). Ang sinasabi ko lang, we don't need false prophets in calling people to repentance. Preaching the Bible is more than sufficient.

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  13. As long as what the prophet tells will lead the people to repent, ask for forgiveness from the Lord, returning to the faith in God, accepting Jesus in their lives as Lord and savior, it should not be argued upon but prayed for. This is a call for revival, this is a call for us to return to God. This is not even a call for the unbelievers but for us believers, this is a call for us workers to do our work in the Kingdom. God is cleansing His Bride.. taking away every blot of stain..gathering every grain of wheat, and that's where we stand, that's our part.. to go and preach the gospel for the great harvest. If we are so self righteous about these prophecies, these prophets, then there is no humility at all. Why is it so had to accept that God's wrath has come to the Philippines? We believers can never even say that we had really done our parts, may we be pastors, bishops, elders, deacons, worship leaders or whatever ministry we are in, we can never tell God that we have done our purposes here because if we do, then this would've never happened at all. God is a God of RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUSTICE, OF ORDER AND OF HOLINESS. And we can never deny the fact that every form of idolatry lures in this country, that which God hates so much. God can punish whoever He likes, whenever He wants. He can forgive whomever He chooses.

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  14. I'm sorry Pam, but that is not the biblical way. You mean anyone claiming to be a prophet should be welcome in our churches as long as he inserts the phrase "repent and turn to God" somewhere in his talks??? No, that is not the biblical way. The biblical way is to apply Deut. 18:20-22.

    Pam, I hope you are not implying that anyone who disbelieve in these so-called prophets are self-righteous devoid of humility

    Are you impying that the Philippines will be free from calamity if all the ministers of God shall be faithful?

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  15. Sorry manny but i think this article proves nothing. Tama ung naunang comment which said it is a conditional prophecy. Since conditional prophecy is in a win-win situation, it does mean that it is already false prophecy. That's the way they prophecy in the bible. Just in case the prophecy is going to be exact, you have the point for saying it as "tsamba", but again it doesn't prove it as a false prophecy. Kasi the way you judge on that, pwd mo ding iaplay yan sa mga naunang prophet don sa bible at tawagin mo silang false prophet. Lahat puro negative thoughts lang. Kasi by your own information, wla pa naman akong nakikita that proves that he is a false prophet. By logical way of thinking based on your data alone, it doesn't prove that he is false prophet or even a true prophet. It means both are possible but no conclusion yet. But in my faith, through reading and hearing more about him, i believe that he is a true prophet.

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    1. What are we going to do with the prophesied New Dispensation beginning October, 2011? Was it fulfilled or not?

      If it was fulfilled, where are the great number of miracles performed not just by pastors but every Christian?

      If it was not fulfilled, what is wrong with IFP's prayer and fasting? They carefully followed the conditions laid down by the prophet. But it could not be unfulfilled because Dan Balais, the National Chairman of the IFP is counting the years. He says we are into the 2nd year of the New Dispensation (Sadhu's prophecy) and 3rd year into the Jubilee of Jubilees (Balais' own prophecy). Kahit pala conditional prophecy at tinupad ang mga kondisyon, at natupad na ika ng IFP, invisible pa rin ang mga ebidensya na natupad nga ang prophecy???

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  16. ... and the bottomline, i believe, is really the commands in 1 Thess 5:20-22

    "Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all;".. After testing and seeing whether they pass or fail the biblical tests, obey the instructions that followed -- " hold on to what is good reject every kind of evil."

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    1. Amen! The modern-day church is in a grievous condition. It seems that the IFP will continue to import persons who speak presumptuously in the name of the Lord. We will have an endless supply of false prophets because a large portion of the evangelical community welcomes them uncritically. Thanks for your contribution Sis. Sheryll!

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  17. I'm so sad that you do not understand everything!! I am an ordinary Christian but I have experienced seeing visions, dream dreams and interpret it, and even hear the voice of God!!! I don't know about the term conditional prophecy, but now I understand. Conditional prophecy will only be fulfilled to those who will believe... That's what FAITH is! believe and you will see!!! Pray hard my beloved brother...

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    1. Jeanette, thanks for counting me as a beloved brother. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You are saying that the prophecy of the new dispensation will only be fulfilled in the eyes and experience of those who will believe. So when Sadhu Sunday says "Every single believer", it doesn't really mean "every single believer" but only those who will believe the prophecy such as --YOU?

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  18. Greetings from Israel,
    A belated comment if I may... because the issue is still alive, thanks to Sundar Selvaraj himself.

    For those dear brothers and sisters who want to keep believing in Sundar as a prophet by taking refuge in "conditional prophecies", please be aware that regarding the prophecy about Jerusalem being divided - the original 2011 prophecy, now being repackaged for a new "open heavens conference" in June 2014 - Sundar explicitly said that it MUST take place:

    “Now they [Michael and the angels] will all pull back from the city like they were restrained not to protect the Lord [at His crucifixion], because the city must be divided … But Israel must walk through that part so that other prophetic events can take place."
    Hear it for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es6MZCislZM, time-mark 1:53.

    Four of his prophet-colleagues also said it: It MUST happen - in December 2012 to be precise, because that's GOD's timetable. Bob Misst "heard it from the mouth of the Lord". But it didn't.

    Embrace the truth, folks - your spiritual life depends on it!

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    1. Wow! Is this Hannah Weiss ? I'm honored to be visited by you. Thanks for the update :)

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